Friendship-The Journey Impossible Alone

Carl Richards:
Greetings from the Joy Bus. My name's Carl Richards, and I am your host today of the Work Life Play podcast. I've taken over from Aaron. It was an invitation, but I fully accepted the invitation to interview Aaron somewhere around. We're, we're talking ten years now.

Aaron:
Ten years.

Carl Richards:
And 200+ some-odd episodes. So, Aaron, welcome to the show.

Aaron:
Thank you. I like it. We're in the Joybus. Carl's in the seat you always held for the guests, but you are interviewing me this time.

Carl Richards:
What would I like to start on? It strikes me, and this is a strange place to start, but I'm going to go there anyway. Talk to me about friendship a bit.

Aaron:
It's a great opener. I remember, well, two things come to mind. One is you recently introduced me to a friend of yours in the UK, and how you introduced me was something along the lines of, hey friend, meet my friend Aaron. Here's a little bit about him. He meets people all over the world. He's really curious about who they are and what they do. And they become friends. They become his friends, or something along those lines.

Carl Richards:
I think, did I say he's really good at collecting friends all over

Aaron:
The world? That's what it was—collecting friends all over the world. So that is true about me and what. I was recently all over the world, again, in Norway, in Spain, in Italy, in, we were having dinner in Italy. My daughter's there for school and had a brand-new friend. He happened to live in this city of Florence that we're at, he grew up around the corner and his parent's house, and he gave us a walking tour in the rain, you know, after he got us into a fancy restaurant, < Laugh>. And I realized that that's normal to me because friendship to me is, I extend friendship, and I think from the warmth of that, people respond.

Carl Richards:
It seems to be super intentional. When did you start thinking that way? Like it's an active practice.

Aaron:
For sure. Like daily almost. I've always been curious about other people and felt we should be together. Whatever that friend was, if that was a friend in high school, if that was a swim team friend, if that was a triathlon friend, so all the chapters of my life, if I scan back through, I can see how I've always had great friends, but I've also always cultivated great friendships, which has also required a lot of risk on my part and the great friendships that I have is only a small collection of the risks I've taken.

Carl Richards:
Tell me about risk. Like what, what risk are you talking about with friendship?

Aaron:
Well, even in asking, you and I were trading texts two days ago. You're on your way to Denver, and I don't even know why you're coming. It may be a conference. You're here for the work that you do in the world. And I chose to take a risk to say, hey, when you're done, do you want to drive 72 miles south? Right. Come play. And we'll record this podcast together. So that's a risk. Then you respond and say, I can't do that, but if you want to drive the bus up, we could do the interview and the joy bus that I can do. So, to me, however small that may or may not appear, it was still a risk. To me, the spirit of adventure is, a lot of the time, the risks that I take. Hey, wouldn't it be cool if, or would you be interested in it, that isn't always a yes.

This also means even before we're ever friends, and it is sometimes a yes for someone to respond to want to be my friend.

So that's what I mean by taking risks.

Carl Richards:
Look, I know you well enough to know that you're, you would be hesitant to do this, and you'll be, if I can get you to do it, you'll be super kind about it. But can you tell us about a time when the risk didn't work, or I'll give you an alternative question. In fact, I like the alternative better. Can you tell us about a time when you were disappointed by a friend?

Aaron:
Looking back, I can see how sometimes I was putting on the expectations I was putting on that friendship, what I needed from that friendship. So, one that comes to mind is when I was a new dad; I must have been young, twenties, young, 24, 25, 26. And many of my friends at the time were still single, unmarried, had no kids, and spent a lot of time romping in the mill, the hills, and the mountains. Climbing and ice climbing and running and whatever they were doing, skiing. And so, they were living the life that I had envisioned living, and the life I had chosen was coming with a set of trade-offs that I was making about being home on the weekends and helping and just being, I was, had a full-time job during the week, a wife and a new child. So, I remember still attempting to relate to them and hopefully them to me.

Aaron:
And there was just a widening gap. I was on one particular trip with these guys, and I remember, and no doubt this was warranted in some ways, there was a lot of masculine energy, and I would bring the estrogen energy, you know, and they were, they weren't, they didn't love that they were, because I would ask them like, well, hey, how are you? How are you < Laugh>? How are you feeling? Right. What about your feelings? Do we climb this peak today in this way? And then, you know, eight inches of fresh snow dropped overnight. And our boots were frozen, and it was like I was annoying. And so, it was hard, and it was hard to, what I look back on now, be who I was in a way that was not fitted well for the environment and the level of maturity I had to wield who I was. And then the context I found myself in was, how many 24 - 26-year-olds want to talk about feelings? And I laugh at saying that now, but I can look back and realize there was a real strength and maturity I was bringing to the relationships and conversations that wasn't valuable at the time.

Carl Richards:
So, let's go back to risk. You and I are both fond of this idea of doing things that may not work and pursuing friendship. Can you think of a time when you did something that didn't work? Like, I really would've liked that to have happened.

Aaron:
I don't know. < Laugh>, the reason I'm laughing is that what I can think of more easily Okay. Is the crazy I've tried that has worked? I'm sure if I spent some time on the question, I could come back with a better answer.

Carl Richards:
Tell Me the craziest you've tried. Well, and that's a farm lang. Normally Carl doesn't use farm language, but this is so appropriate a farm word, a farm word in the joy bus.

Aaron:
Well, for instance, the crazy we just did together in March. Right? So, for you, the listener, our friends. So, we hatched this plan. Carl's living in New Zealand; a few years ago, we had this call, and we talked about this idea of dancing with dragons, and wouldn't it be cool if we got a bunch of people together? We were thinking of a guy's trip, and they would be about people who take risks for a living. This vast aperture, business people, maybe, you know, artists, financial, startups, and therapists. Who knows. But let's get them all together, put them in this experience, and we will use this idea of let's find where the dragons live. Right? So, we hatched this plan together.

I illustrate us, the map, you know, for that, what it would look like over a couple of days. Fast forward years later come what this time last year we were talking, and it was like, we must do this. We have to do it. We have to step forward. We have to make the trip happen. We don't have to go to New Zealand. I have this perfect buddy in Redondo Beach. He could bring the ocean to us for us mountain guys. And fast forward, we put out invites. We have it scheduled for January, and of six of eight us, six people got covid, and one had RSV < Laugh>. So, we canceled it but did not cancel it. We postpone it to fast forward, then put it on with Captain Matt, go onto Catalina Island, Dance with Dragons, and run and lobster dive at night.

And, in the middle of a high windstorm where we're going to cancel it again. So, I look back at those kinds of, and that's a quick fly-by of a lot of things that went into a, an incredible trip that we had. And it was all resume list, so no bio and strangers rock up. And then, all of a sudden, we have this life-impacting transformational experience. But I called you and our friend Jared and almost pestered you. About how great this would be. And how we need to start with the three of us meeting and let's see what hatches from there,

Carl Richards:
Because you're so good at this, my whole thought around this was that I just wanted to learn super curious about how you do this. Let's talk for a minute just about tactics. Like what tools do you use to collect these friends < Laugh>? Like how do you keep track of it? Do you have a little CRM? Do you put their contacts in a thing? Do you have a list of them? Like, what do you do?

Aaron:
How nerdy and programmatic am I about it?

Carl Richards:
Look, here's why I'm struck: this is really unusual. It's unusual for me. I had the most powerful experience of that trip for me. The Catalina trip was after we were sitting around having tacos, and you tell the story of your friends coming to the house while you're gone to drop off those, you know, couple hundred, couple thousand, I don't know what the number is, red balloons in your house. And I remember leaning across; you guys are away in Florida. You know, there's this event -10-year anniversary.

Aaron:
Hadley's Death,

Carl Richards:
Hadley's Death 10 years later. Nobody knows. Like, it wasn't a big community thing. I mean, it had been ten years earlier. You come back, and there's, and your daughter Avery's telling me the story. You and Avery are telling me the story over tacos, and Jared or other friends are sitting there. And this story is essential just because it, this struck me. I've told this story a hundred times since you're away, and somehow a group of people find their way into your house, filling the house with these balloons that have significance from the service, the funeral service, ten years earlier. And Avery shows me the video with tears in her eyes. And I'm emotional. And I remember saying to Jared, I mean, no, I said to you, who are these people?

Carl Richards:
And Jared leaned across, grabbed my hand, and said they're his friends. And I thought, I don't, I don't, I don't know people like that. Right? Like, I don't have friends like that. Fortunately, I'm not alone. I've since been very, very intentional. And I told Corie the other day I have more friends than I've ever had in my life. Right. And it didn't take long. It was just rekindling old things that are new friends. They're like, let's do something. But you have been a practicer of that craft for a while. So, first of all, thank you. But second, how do you do it tactically?

Aaron:
I love it. I love reliving the moment of coming home to balloons filling our house.

Carl Richards:
It's just, that's just remarkable.

Aaron:
It's a story in of itself. That was remarkable. And I'm so grateful that it was such a, made such an imprint on you. That's fun even to see it in your eyes as you retell it. Think that you've retold that story. If I go to your question, Carl, what I think comes up for me is I have this deep, profound belief. We are connected. We're supposed to be connected somehow. The way that God rigged the whole thing,

I want to pull in David Whyte's poem on friendship. David writes, "The ultimate touchstone of friendship is not improvement neither of the other nor the self. The ultimate touchstone is witness the privilege of having been seen by someone and the equal privilege of being granted the sight of the essence of another. To have walked with them, to have believed in them. And sometimes just to have accompanied them for however brief a span on a journey impossible to accomplish alone."

We're supposed to be intimately involved in each other's lives. as advocates, as witnesses of one another's experiences-As, David writes, not for the betterment of improvement. Right. I'm not here to make you better. You're not here to make me better, although that may happen, to be a witness to your life. So, what stuck out to me was to be seen and to see, to be seen and to witness the essence of another. Yep. And how he ends that is to accompany one another for however long on a journey impossible to accomplish alone. And to me, that's why I'm here. Like, I'm not here to move stuff from the inbox to the outbox for paying taxes, getting married, and going to church. It's deeper than that. And to me, in the same way that my marriage is with my wife and my relationship is with my kids, so it is true for me with my friends that it to me is as critical in my human experience to be seen and to see and witness others on a journey and possible to accomplish alone.

Carl Richards:
So, I'm keeping you on the hook on the tactics.

Carl Richards:
Tactics. I'm super curious. Like if I were to ask Stephen King what kind of pencil he used.

Aaron:
I mean, I'll, I'll show you. Like I have, I have a list.

Carl Richards:
Well, tell us. So, what, where does this list exist?

Aaron:
All right, I have two things I can think of right now. I have a 2022 prayer slash intentions list. It has four categories of particular items. I'm doing five with my life this year. They're not for any specific order, but one of them is around friends, specifically around the friendships that I will rekindle, that I will honor and that I will pour into and by name. I've listed particular people on that list for this year. I have a, for this podcast, I have, I don't do this podcast to be rich, famous, or anything to do with social media metrics and all those things that go with this kind of a thing. I have a list of 12 people, 11 people's names, that I do this for them because I know it'll help them by name.

Carl Richards:
Where does that list exist? Like, is it a notebook you carry around? Is it up on the mirror in the house? Is

Aaron:
It I, so my intention is in a book. It's on a bookmark that I pull out once a week. Oh right. And then the other is my journal in the front of the journal. And I refer back to it, and I index it by January, so I know when to go back and look at those names. So, when I have moments of this podcast, and I think this is nonsense, why do I keep doing this? I go back, and I open up that list and say it's because of Jared, Johnny, Carl, Adam, Ben, Rob, and Kevin. My heart keeps track of who needs to be cared for.

Carl Richards:
I thought I was just feeling into this idea that I know people who are very, very tactical. Like I've seen Air table databases, < Laugh>, that are like, you know, one call, like name of person contact frequency, daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly. Oh. It spits up a reminder.

Aaron:
My wife does some of that. She's much more methodical.

Carl Richards:
I've always seen those, and I'm so impressed., right. I was impressed by somebody who's that thoughtful about it. And then this really interesting feeling comes up for me, and I'm trying to solve it. You and I talked about this once, like. What does it mean that I want to keep these things private? What does it mean that I don't? I've had some intense experiences the last couple of months, all of which people have intentionally said, you're going to want to journal this, and I don't. And, and so my point is, rather than going down another thread, and that was the second thread I want to talk about, was this idea you're an outstanding collector of wisdom and, and your ability to, to have that resurface at the right time and place. So, but before we get there, like one more farm word, like a buddy of mine taught me to like the good sticks, which is interesting to trust friendship to your heart and God, as I'll know, but there's an intentional asking, an intentional cultivation of the how will I, please don't let me miss it. How will I recognize the message, if you will, which is super interesting to me. So, it's more like that or more like the Air table database?

Aaron:
No, much more like just praying, trusting, sensing, and responding to the people that God brings to my heart. The people that I'm tracking with in life. I used to think that friendship was forever.
I'd no longer believe that.

Because I thought that the idea of being friends now meant that we would be friends forever and that something's wrong if we're not friends forever. And what I have seen and experienced now through life is that some friendships might last for decades, and some may last for a particular season. And I used to have a lot of grief or frustration or confusion over, well, why did that friend, why is that friendship no longer current? And what I have grown to appreciate is that I may not know, or I may have made different choices, or I've changed, or my context has changed. My enjoyment of that friendship has changed. But I can look back with appreciation and gratitude for how timely that friendship was

In being witnessed, in the growth I experienced, or in the mentorship I received. So, I also hold friendships with a lot of mystery. And apply a lot of pressure. It's much more. I hold friendship with an invitation and with adventure and curiosity. Let's see, let's see where this goes. Let's see what we can learn. I also don't walk around, I don't think, with a lot of great pressure and need on my friendships. Where I need you to come through for me, or I need you to do this for me, or I need, because I start the friendship from a deep place of wellness. Within me. And then I offer, I hope I offer a lot of life from that place.

Carl Richards:
There's nothing more important to talk about. So, I have 50 million questions I want to ask and think I should say amen. < Laugh>, Aaron McHugh, thank you for your work. I, you don't need to be doing this. And on behalf of those 12 people on that list of listeners and the rest who listen, thanks for your work. Love you, brother.

Aaron:
You, to man. Thank

Carl Richards:
You. Cheers.

-Keep Going