Finding Neverland with Songwriter Jeff Nelson #190

Aaron:
Brothers and sisters, welcome back to another episode of work life, play, where we are on a hunt and defined it “More”. We want it all. We want soulful work. We want meaning, purpose, joy. We want relationships with deep intimacy and connections. We want work that matters. We want to contribute to something more than just getting a paycheck, and we want to find ways to build adventure into our life. An adventure can be as simple as like you walk down the sidewalk and I did hopscotch the other day, the COVID world that we're living in. Some kids had gone through and done chalk on the sidewalk and made hopscotch and like adventure and play. It's just living with a young heart. And so in that, my joy today is to introduce you to what I'm going to call an episode on finding Neverland with Jeff Nelson and why finding Neverland? Because I feel like Jeff's world has a degree of magic in it that we would all benefit from more of.

So what you're going to find in this episode today is Jeff is an amazing musician and just released a new album that you can find his work. I've been listening to it on Spotify. I'm sure it's many other places, and it's just really great storytelling with a guitar and some great vocals. So he pulls off a, a one man show for us on this episode. And we riff in between dialogue about finding meaningful work. What do we do when the day job that we have, isn't bringing us the Yahoo that we long for, but it's fulfilling a specific need in our life, food, clothing, shelter, and predictability and security. And at the same time, we have this thing in us that we're trying to figure out a way to get out. And that's what Jeff does for us today. So really enjoy. Settle in.

I definitely would recommend this is a good one to find some space, to take it in and listen to his tunes, listen to them live, and then go check out his music. As I said on Spotify earlier. So we're going to talk about destinations unknown. We're going to talk about how to fail a lot more about how to live. Like how do we move from fragmented to integrate it and how do we find Neverland? How do we find a degree of magic in our life that allows that inner eight-year-old in us to come alive?

Jeff Nelson:
So I have a construction career and I started off as a general contractor building for people and also being a construction consultant, giving people advice on how to, you know, build something correctly if they didn't want to hire a general. And then just this year I bought a plumbing company. And so now I'm running both of them kind of side by side. And it's great because the plumbing company is busy all the time and general contracting isn't. But I have a passion to be a musician and to write and to get some music into the ears of other people that can actually affect them. But my life is so fragmented because when I get in the work van and I'm driving, it's completely like checked out that I'm even a musician.

Aaron:
Since you're already geared up. Ready to go. You mind if we just jump right in?

Jeff Nelson:
Dude, I would love it.

Aaron:
Dealer's choice, whatever tune you want to fire up first sweet.

Jeff Nelson:
So the whole story about the album was I wrote it during a time when my career being self-employed was completely crashing. I had had a job sign up and the client had called two weeks before the start date. Everybody's lined up and he just said, we're not doing it anymore. And it was a big hit to my system and my wife's system. And I locked myself in my garage for two weeks. And I hadn't written a song in four years and all of a sudden stuff started coming out. And I just was very, very passionate about what I was writing. And one of the first ones that came out of that was the song I wrote about my son called “See You Through.”

(singing “See You Through”)
You are young. Never grow. Oh, I'm afraid this life we made may change. Even now, you wake me when I’m dreaming. I get right up, I’m tired, but I’m with you. I will see you through. I will see you through. When there's time, we can be together. There are tears and I tell you to stop. Thinking now, I'm writing as you're sleeping, that crying means you want to be with me. I will see you through. I will see you through. I will see you through. I will see you through. I'm afraid the little things go way, the words are getting clearer today. Little one, I know you can't say as long. as you are here I want you to know, I will see you through. I will see you through. I will see you through.

Aaron:
Brothers. So good. Thanks. I feel to be on the gift fiddle?

Jeff Nelson:
Oh my gosh. So good.

Aaron:
I'm curious about, I love the song and wrote down some of the lyrics here on my notes of that was born from locking yourself in the garage. And that was the first song that your heart had to sing. What does that tell you about you and your son?

Jeff Nelson:
What it tells me is that I have a dichotomous relationship with work, with play and with family because I have to work to make money. I have to work to bring it home to make us, but when I'm at work, I feel like I'm neglecting my kids. And when I'm home with them, I don't feel guilty that I'm not at work, but it's something that I just have to do.

And so the song came from this fear that I'm going to be working so hard to do the provision, and I'm going to miss all of the things that are so small and special about kids. And like I'm afraid that I was afraid that I'd become the guy that would look back when his kids were 16 and be very tearful that they think about the things that they miss because they were busy trying to make it work. And so I am in this multiple personality relationship with wanting to just be home and figuring out how can I live on the least amount possible so that I can do this thing well and still survive without my wife or me feeling like the absolute pressure of debt and absolute pressure of success like looming over me and, and feeling more like, no, I don't have to be the best, the greatest. I want to be those in something else. And those things that I want to be the best and greatest that is going to be fatherhood and musicianship and friendship. And I want to make sure that like somebody can say, Oh, but you don't, you want to be the best contractor. I feel very highly about the way that I do my job, but I don't think I ever want to be known as that.

Aaron:
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious for you as you walk this tightrope of, or at least in the beginning, when you wrote this song, if it's a, I might become something I don't intend to as a result of my duty and obligation, where are you finding yourself in that story today?

Jeff Nelson:
I don't know if you, if you want me to bring up the times, but we have this thing going on right now, that's causing the world to shut down. And I am watching, as my friends are getting so much more time with their kids, it's such a good thing to have that time. And people are actually bragging about the time they get with family, which is such a great thing in the midst of crisis. But I'm hearing family, men say that this is such a special time. For me, I'm still pretty busy. So I'm not like getting that like pause yet. It's going nonstop.

Like, so obviously construction, plumbing. People are always in need of it, especially when they're home. So I'm working longer hours than ever. But when I get home, when I wake up in the morning, when I make that cup of coffee, when I put that record on with my wife and sit there on the couch with all the kids in the same room and I just watched them be, and they jump all over me, they spill my coffee on the couch. I get mad, but it's the moment. That's my favorite moment of the morning. Favorite moment of the day. And I get to go home again at the end of the day and do something similar, but with a cocktail.

Aaron:
Yeah, come on. All right. I guess my question then Jeff is what I hear you saying is you have a really values based compass and that compass. When it feels the magnetic pole towards true North for you, that is what I would define as things that make you wealthy, that don't cost money. And yet you live in an environment that most of the world's compass is magnetically charged to point towards things that are, that are not values based necessarily. So if spilling coffee on the couch and listening to records with your wife and friends, family are what juice you up. And yet you have this duty. What I love about it is I think what you're describing is the plight of most of us is for most of us that are conscious enough and aware that what the world has to offer isn't that great by itself. And there are some deeper things that are longer lasting and more eternal and matter. Then when we begin to orient our lives towards those things, it does create tension because then you're out 12 hour days fixing sinks and backed up plumbing. And instead of more time on the couch, listening to records.

I got a request for you. How about “Wrinkled Lines”?

Jeff Nelson:
Oh yeah! I love to play for ya.

So the house that we live in was my grandma and grandpa's house, the room that we're recording, like three feet from me, it was his chair and this is the place that he sat. And when he sat in this chair and I was 16 years old, me and him were best friends and I'd come over here and he'd always have Folgers brewing. And then, you know, the powder creamer mix it in and I'd sit with him. And he would tell me about how crazy politics is. And he could not hear anything. He would only read the newspaper and we would just talk and we'd talk for hours and I'd come back the next week and do the same thing again. And two years ago he passed away and it was a very, very hard loss. I feel his presence inside this house. And I thought on this album, I was like, I really want to write what I'm feeling about. And so this, this song came out. It is, it is much more universal than I'm making it, but it came out of the thought that life is so fleeting. And why are we so afraid of being kind of ... the humans that we are getting old, getting gray, getting wrinkled, getting ugly. It's like, why don't we embrace that if we're all doing it? And so almost like a pride in it. So this is “Wrinkled Lines”.

(singing “Wrinkled Lines”)
Look, it all lines on my my. Deep and dry , show no trace of heaven. That's the way it's been. Yeah, no, it's not a sin. Why do you hold it in like heaven? That's the way it's been. You should look at the other side tonight. Say goodbye to all these wrinkled lines. All through the years, the centuries. How can I not be pleased like heaven? That's the way it's been. I got hairs and I got moles, but I don't care because I got soul like heaven. That's the way it's been. You should look at the other side tonight. Say goodbye to all these wrinkled lines. You should look at the other side tonight. Say goodbye to all these wrinkled lines. I whistle it too, like a bird. I don’t know why I’m scared of heaven. That’s the way it’s been. You should look at the side tonight. Say goodbye to all these wrinkled lines. You should look at the other side tonight. Say goodbye to all the wrinkled lines.

Aaron:
So Jeff, in your storytelling, what was it like for you to have Mitch, Dane and crew help you bring these stories to life?

Jeff Nelson:
When I walked in and I saw what he has going, and I did research on him before to find out who this guy was that we're recording with and found out that he was something to be reckoned with. And that I was only lucky to be able to walk through his doors. And he accepted me. Like I was already a brother when I walked in, like I was a friend. I mean, he is incredibly kind and so friendly. And soft-spoken, he is not this loud, boisterous personality that makes you feel like fake loved. It was warm love. And so I walk in, I see his whole studio. I see all of his microphone setup. I see all these musicians that are entering, getting their stuff set up and Mitch is not ignoring me, but he has a job to do.

And he's going to each musician putting on microphones and their levels and not saying a word to me, I'm like a fly on the wall. I'm just sitting. I'm just standing up kind of like what's going on. And nobody's asking me to check anything, but they're getting everybody else set up. And I had not been used to this before. I was used to being the conductor and running the orchestra. Like everybody go here, go there, do this.

Aaron:
You mean the general contractor in you?

Jeff Nelson:
Yes. And Mitch was the conductor. And then at the very last moment, they said, okay, Jeff, here's your booth? Come on in, put the microphone. They put the guitar in my hand. They said, you ready to go? I was like, like that, aren't we going to like, do a sound check? They're like, let's just try it out. Let's just see what happens.

And so I pulled the 20 songs that I'd brought and I, and I said, guys, let's try wrinkled lines. And I want to do wrinkled lines because it was, it was a little bit like Neil Young-ish. It had that feeling where you can just kind of like the words, drone. You can like drone on the acoustic and let everybody breathe a little bit. Let the pedal still breathe. And the drums breathe. And we did it. And I remember after the first take, I looked at Mitch and Mitch looked to me like with this like wide eyes, like that was exactly what I wanted it to be. And I remember feeling inside very validated because this person that is actually a musician for career looked at me and gave me kind of the approval. Like, you're not a joke. You're, you're not this guy.

Aaron:
That's just his dudes for real.

Jeff Nelson:
You're not this joke. That's coming in to record an album with his plumbing money. And it's going to sound like awful. You know, he looked at me like that was what Nashville wants to hear right now. And that it was, it was, it was all in a look and it was very validating.

Aaron:
So good. What tune do you want to play next?

Jeff Nelson:
I'm going to play “Destinations Unknown”. It's yeah, I guess I'll let it kind of define itself. Sometimes I'm annoyed with musicians that always explain what it is. So I better shut up.
(singing “Destinations Unknown”)
Driving around, windows down. I can't make up my mind. Should I stay here, should I go there? Should I just drive around destinations unknown. I can't keep from going. You and I go, up to the snow Somewhere away and alone. We've been here before. Away from the Lord. Now we must find our way home destinations unknown. I can't keep from going. Destinations unknown. I can't keep from going. Somewhere inside this intimate maze is the answer. I can’t see clear when you are not here it's so obvious. Is this how it ends? Will we still be friends? It's uncertain how we get to the destinations unknown, I can't keep from going. Destinations unknown, I can't keep from going. When everyone's gone, it's you that I long. To borrow your time and your words. He is with her, she is with him, now we must make it alone. Destinations unknown, I can't keep from going. Destinations unknown, I can't keep from going

Aaron:
So beautiful. How do you live with that song? Live with these stories in you and still show up and do the duty that's in front of you that involves a pipe wrench and a hammer and a clipboard and a spreadsheet when you're, I'm sure, equally, if not more gifted with the guitar?

Jeff Nelson:
Well, I think that the way I do it is a song in a lyric and a thought is going through your mind all day, no matter what you're doing.

So if my plight is to work as a plumber until I'm retired, then when I'm under a house, when I am in an attic, when I am waist deep in the wrong kind of thing, I'm going to be thinking about words. I'm going to be thinking about my situation. I'm going to be thinking about other people's situations. And it's going to inspire me always to write and to put things down on paper.

And the way I do it, when it, when it's all like, so the thoughts run through all day. I'm not one of those guys that writes lyrics down in a journal during the middle of the day, like I'm walking around. I let the thoughts brew and brew and brew. And then when I actually have time to grab a pen and put paper and a guitar in my hand, because writing, writing happens with all of it together, the guitar has to be against my chest. I have to be playing. I have to be writing at the same time.

I can't do like the guitar part in this lyric part. It has to be all the same. And I just go through my days, my weeks, my years, and I think I can play the guitar and I can hear the story just with what the strings are doing. So I hear the story that's supposed to be told, even if it's in the same key as other songs that I've written at that time, I hear like a color or I see a color. I hear a story, I hear a word it's usually like one word that branches off into a bunch. And they are all in that well of thoughts that goes on every day, that just gets stored in a bag.

Aaron:
So how is your life as a plumber general contractor actually serving you as a musician?

Jeff Nelson:
Financially. Like, Idon't, I work to do a lot more than be a musician, but this record, I had to be the label with a friend of mine.

And we, we both, I mean, I don't actually for him, but for me it was the most I've ever spent on something on production, on studio, on mastering, on mixing on the things that I did myself. I realized, okay, well then my construction career is going to pay for that recording. And it looked at first like the construction paid for microphones and gear and me learning how to record and do the thing. 10 albums deep, just recording myself, always upping my game. And I thought, this next one, it's gotta be special. It's gotta be something different. Because I've never had this long of a period of stagnancy and I need to actually do something special with the amount of time it took to write. These 20 songs is a lot longer than all the other ones.

I was releasing like an album or two a year because I like, well, there's nobody stopping me. There's no deadlines. The reason construction has been so good is it gives me enough to live on. And this last year, it given me enough to actually invest in an album and like spend.

So to give you like a little bit of insight, the first album that I did was $800. It was a microphone and some software, but I already had the computer. Then the next album was about 1500, bought a new microphone, just one microphone for 1500. And I was like, this is going to be it. So it just kept doing that until I got to like the 10th album and I had spent $4,000 and that was partly marketing. That was partly recording. That was partly paying musicians to record with me buying new gear. This album was 25,000. And so like, I looked at it and I was like, I, I first don't think I could spend that. But I thought, why not? Like, why not spend that? And obviously I split it with somebody, but I was like, why not spend that and make a great product? And that is why Mitch Dane was a part of the picture.

Aaron:
Yeah, that's awesome. I have this theory about this tension of work and I've met a number of people who made it and whatever it was, they were longing to do, wanted to do. And then now they’re doing it full time. So call it musician, call it, writer, call it entrepreneur, you know, whatever it may be. And they miss the tension that they used to live with because while they were doing their version of plumbing, they were thinking about it all day long. So you said you were you write. You hear music and you're writing as you're, you're going about your duty in your day job. And then you come home, your wife's taking a nap, and you go find a quiet spot to assume the position with guitar and pen and start following the words. So what I've learned in the same being true for me, is when, because of that tension of all day long, looking forward to it, longing for it, it actually is creating art inside of me during the day.

Jeff Nelson:
You're right.

Aaron:
That is longing for a place to have expression. And then the people that I've met that are actually have arrived, you know, whatever we might perceive that to be. Is that they miss that tension because now all they have all day long is now actually the pressure to, Oh, now I'm a musician. That means I've got to create a bunch of music. And then they turn up with turns, tons of freedom on their schedule. And the freedom is actually a new struggle for them, because now that I'm a full time writer or I'm a full time consultant, or I'm a full time, whatever it is, man, I really miss just being underneath the house, trying to figure out or in the attic, what the hell to do with a, B and C, but all the while there was something marinating and stewing in me.

And so what I've learned to do is to embrace the tension with gratitude. I'm so glad I'm not a full time writer because I think it would actually scare the crap out of me. If I was, that was then that's the pressure then versus I'm figuring out how to be a writer in the mini minuscule margins. I can piece together in the breadcrumb moments of my life, but then all the other time I'm gathering material, like all the always like there's always a story in me.

So I was wanting to run with a buddy yesterday and he was asking me what my day was like, and I was telling him, and I said, well, this happened. And this happened and this call and this leader and this executive and this thing. And I said, I'm writing my next book. And he goes, Oh, really already.

And I said, no, but I am because stuff happened today that I'm cataloging that had, I been home stuck at my desk with a blinking cursor saying, what are you going to write? What are you going to write? I wouldn't have anything to put on the paper. Comparatively to being on the journey yesterday. And I was doing some things that were still meaningful to me, but maybe not all that I have envisioned I would have liked to have done yesterday, but the material I was gathering, it was like, this is like primary research. This is how you write a great book or a great song. So my suggestion, my invitation for us both is what might be possible for us when we embrace the tension. And then we have these funding partners. Yours is a construction company and plumbing. Mine's a consulting gig that I have.

Jeff Nelson:
So just go looking at it.

Aaron:
They fund the cool stuff that you just produced, this cool album that had it not been for your funding partner called your plumbing job and GC general contracting job. You couldn't have funded it. So how rad that these two are in partnership with each other and by embracing that partnership, what I've just discovered is a whole lot more freedom in the moment to really love and enjoy what I'm doing versus feeling angst over what I'm not able to do that. I just wish I could like a, B and C or so. And so that I compare myself to, so now that's a long riff.

Jeff Nelson:
No, it's a good riff. I think that I feel very strongly the same sentiment because I sometimes wish for something different. But then when I think, like you said, what not having it offers you in terms of information and drive and desire. It's almost a way of saying it keeps it completely pure.

Aaron:
Invaluable, like thinking of bands that you love in their breakout album is so amazing. You're like, where are these guys been? Are you kidding me? And then album two and three later after they made it is crap. Kind of like, you know what happen? They got fat. It's like one of those Rocky movies, it's like, you forgot to train. And you just were at photo shoots all day looking pretty versus in the locker room, banging, you know, cold meat at the freezer

Jeff Nelson:
There's something that is so pretty about ugly. And I was going to say, I think that it also like what you were saying leads to like that blinking cursor. And when that's on the page, I've learned that you move forward by not being afraid to fail. And whenever I write a song, I think to myself, you know, if I don't start putting words on a piece of paper, I need to write a bad song right now. It needs to be something.

I wrote a song before Nashville before heading Nashville called “Been the Druggie”. And it was because I was just playing the guitar and I needed to write a song. And it was honestly the worst song I've ever written in my whole life, but it led to writing another one and another one and another one that ended up sticking and staying.

And so you have to be willing to have that ugly duckling, like roaming around and it needs to be there. And so to me, I like obviously I don't have this big company coming after me saying, Hey, we gotta sell this many. We have to do this. I can do whatever I want. It allows me to fail a lot more and be my own filter.

A friend of mine, Simon was telling me, Jeff, don't ever be afraid of all the failures that like, you may think you're having with writing music and it's not hitting that like radio chart thing or the thing that you think you want it to be, because think about how much good music is going to come in. All those years, like say, say you turn 50 or 60 and it still hasn't happened. He goes, can you imagine if you keep riding all the way until that age, how many pieces you'll be able to have?

And when you're 50 or 60, you're still young and you could still go play at a bar and you could still grab an acoustic guitar and harmonica and go somewhere and you'll have, you know, he explained it. He painted a utopian picture to me of like, that's the most pure version of music that I have have heard somebody say, and I have been hoping for something different. And it made me recheck my steps and say, Nope, back up. This is, this is very good. Being small and being unknown is a very good pure thing. And I'll fight it. Sometimes I'll fight it a lot.

Aaron:
Bring us pure and unknown, right now.

Jeff Nelson:
Alright, “Last Night With You”.

I woke this morning to a terrible sight. Looked in the mirror, things were not right. My body had bruises, my eyes were red. Felt there'd been a knife in my head. A faint taste of whisky mixed with vermouth. Words last night were very uncouth. Feeling so guilty for things that I said. Next time I see her, I hope I am dead. A moment, a memory, some time, forever. A feeling I have when we're together. That guiltiness that I describe. There this morning because I imbibe. Together we talk, we eat and we drink. When I am with you I don't have to think. A moment, a memory, some time, forever. A feeling I have when we're together. A moment, a memory, some time, forever. A feeling I have when we're together. Nobody else know all of my sin. You drink whiskey and I drink Gin. Although we're different, we're one in the same. Solitude, our version of fame. A moment, a memory, some time, forever. A feeling I have when we're together. A moment, a memory, some time, forever. A feeling I have when we're together. A moment, a memory, some time, forever. A feeling I have when we're together.

Aaron:
That's my favorite line so far today, solitude our version of fame. That's a good line.

Jeff Nelson:
Thank you very, very much. That's that's. I think that that actually describes exactly what you were saying. What you were leading into with, with getting there is man, why do we need to be known? Why can't we just enjoy that, that tension and that craft that we're doing by ourselves because aren't we doing it for us? Or are we only doing it for others? I think that writing music for me is filling a void that gives me a ton of happiness and I need it to be filled.

Aaron:
I met with a friend of mine. She was talking about starting a podcast. And the question I asked her was what will you do with all that energy? If you don't, she'd been in consulting for years and years and a lot of high profile people. So a lot of access to people whose stories people would be compelled to want to listen to. And so she was just kind of belaboring. Like, I don't know if I will, I don't know if I won't and I just said, you know, do or don't, that is a decision you have to make. But I feel like the better choices to ask, well, what will I, can I make this go away in me?

Can I turn down the volume on it? Can I take enough antacid to relieve the pains, you know, the reflux, and if you can? Great, then that's a choice. If you can't make it go away, then the next best decision you have and choice to make is will, what will I do with it?

Jeff Nelson:
It is so nice to shut down the work world for a little bit, and actually be a musician with a fellow creator and understand that there are a lot of other people out there doing this similar style of life. And it's inspiring.

*We’ve done our best for this transcription to accurately reflect the conversation. Errors are possible. Thank you for your patience and grace if you find errors that our team missed.