Being Myself with Hollywood Stuntman/Actor Zack Duhame #193

Aaron: Friends. Welcome back to another episode of work life play. We want it all work. We love plays and rhythms of love and ease and intimacy and connection and purpose and meaning woven into the threads of our life. And today I have a another brother who is going to share some story with us, who as chasing some of the same things that we are. So my friend, Zach Duhame, he and I met a few years back and it was really cool. You'll hear in the podcast, we talk about how I actually, we didn't know each other meaning when we met, we didn't have any context for where we came from other than just what our name was and where we lived. And that was about the extent of it. So it really had a chance to just get a chance to engage in what's the effect this person has on me and who are they and what are they up to in terms of their own, just journe
So, super cool. So then I later learned, and you'll hear in the podcast that Zach is, he's like Uber. I want to use the word famous. I'm sure he wouldn't use that word, but he's a Hollywood stuntman. And so I've been watching some films over the last few weeks and I'll text him and say, what about this one? So he doubles for Brad Pitt in a couple of films. I just watched recently, I'm looking here on his bio, it's everything from Batman versus Superman to a lot of the Marvel comic movies and Ironman 3, in the Winter Soldier and Captain Marvel. And so the dude is super rad and less about what he does and more about who he is. So it was really fun to find out about what he does. And we actually talk about what does that look like?
You know, the art of being a stunt man in the world too. So I know you'll enjoy today. Zach Duhame, you can find him on IMDB and anywhere that you want to look up things about film as well as his website and how you spell it is D U H A M E. I'll put it in the show notes as well, but he's got a really cool stunt reel as well. So super fun, dude. And I know you'll enjoy, he's another brother from another mother. Thanks. You can do this. Keep going. This is good for us…

We had a chance to meet as friends first and learn about each other later, which I think is actually really way more fun. When you and I met all we knew were we were guys curious about how to live differently in the context of a spiritual retreat that we were at the mountains, and we were in a group together. And so all I knew was you’re Zack, nothing. And what was cool is I learned to not do any research about anybody, don't look anybody up and, you know, just see what happens. So that said, now I, you know, months, and actually a couple of guys talked to me while we were together and they were like, Oh, do you know what Zach does? I'm like, Oh, I have no idea. So for you listeners, let's see how long we can hold that part of the story and we'll come back to it.
One of the things I love about learning about you is your earth roamer. And then some of the pics that I've seen that are like super cool. So backpacking trip with some buddies and they were talking about earth roamers. I'm like, I know a guy who's got one they're telling me like all this stuff you can do with them. So take us to earth roamers and adventure. And you know, what is it, what is an earth roamer and walk us through what does it mean unlocks for you in life?

Zack Duhame: Yeah. Great question, man. And I agree just to step back and just say, absolutely, it was so fun to not put our work first in that environment. And whenever I've done that, I've also found, especially with people that do something that is admirable or interesting, or sounds really fun, that kind of sidelines. And also we can put our identity in that, that so quickly can, can wrap up a conversation or, or cause it to go a different direction than the true man. So yeah. earth roamer, man. Oh my gosh. Talk about joyful adventure mobile. They're basically, they're built out in Colorado and they take a F five 50, so Ford 550, and then they cut off the back of it and they build on, they extend it and then rewire and they do a ton of stuff. The new ones are insane. Mine is an older model, but since day one, they just did things, right. They just built them proper and they made them. So that the whole point is to get, to get out in the middle of nowhere and have all the things and the stuff that you want. Get it all there with you.

Aaron: It's almost like what was that movie mad max? You know, it's like this, the magnification of a sprinter, right? It's B sleep tough, like a four wheel drive machine. But with the luxuries that you would have having a sprinter type, a adventure van, right?

Zack Duhame: Yeah, absolutely. So they build these things out and they put military tires, big 41 inch wheels on them, air ride, you know, it's, it's four by four, of course it's one molded hull. So it's really bomber. It's got 90 gallons of fuel and like 90 gallons of water. It's just, it's insane. It's got solar panels on top. So you could just spend the time you want oIn the middle of nowhere and not be missing anything you sleep super comfortably in your bed. It causes me to get out there so much more often. And also just the idea of it, knowing that it's there helps me just enjoy the freedom that it brings, the opportunity that's available whether or not I'm utilizing it all the time or not in periods of long work seasons where I'm kind of looking at it rolling my eyes going what, what the heck? Why, why do I have this? I can't even use it.

Aaron: And then sitting in a parking lot or driveway?

Zack Duhame: Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. You know, what was I thinking? But but those are the moments of kind of more sort of fear driven, not adventure and inspired, driven, you know, that I think we're all susceptible to, but I primarily have just been so thankful.

Aaron: Well I love the pictures you sent recently were you and some friends, like kind of out by campfire plants and guitars or whatever it was one of them was your camping. It looked like a Mojave desert ish. And you know, some of, some of you folks were standing on top of it, like on the roof, you know, on the top of the camper part. And then other folks were kind of like down in lawn chairs, it just looked like a, yeah, it looked like a I don't know, a hipster festival. It was super cool. I wanted to be there. That was, that was the, I guess.

Zack Duhame: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. It would have been nice to have you there.

Aaron: You mentioned a word I want to go back to earlier, Zach, and you said about getting to know the man. So if we're to get to know you, what, what should we know about you? Who are you as a man?

Zack Duhame: I would hope that I am fun and enjoyable and articulate and humble and thoughtful and adventurous. I would hope to listen well and see people for who they are to ask good questions and find out more. Yeah, gosh, it's, you know, there's, there's a complexity to that question. That's hard to, to just hone in on everything that I aspire to be, but I'm hopefully picking things that I think are true about me, but also I hope they're true at the same time. Yeah.

Aaron: And I guess maybe another way to ask the question is what are the things that you value most in life that money can't buy?

Zack Duhame: Primarily people, primarily the friendships and the opportunity really enjoying all facets of the love and encouragement and hardship and suffering that that is life with deep friendship, and that in and through God as well is I think one of the most beautiful ways to share that and to recognize the, just the incredible variety and gifting that we've all been given and how that finds its way into our lives. I've had to cultivate and desired to cultivate becoming a more well rounded kind of wholehearted man and consequently hopefully attract the kind of people that admire that and want to also cultivate that. I think what I'm after is I want to surround myself with people that are complex and, you know, there's some multifaceted and we're able to kind of come alongside each other.

Aaron: We use wholehearted a lot these days. I use it a lot is that you've been here a lot. What does that actually mean to you? How are you cultivating that as part of who you are becoming,

Zack Duhame: Becoming a wholehearted man has been an interesting journey. I think when I see that and when I think that I can recognize that in other people it's, it's men and women who have lived well. And, and to me that looks like not over overdoing one area of life. They're not just like a work, they're not a hall, anything there's anything I like, and that's hard to come by. I can't say that I've arrived. I don't know if there's really any anyone that I've ever seen fully. I think, you know, sometimes there's an ebb and flow to life where certain areas are full and others are depleted. And then, you know, as life goes on, you, you learn how to fill in those, those voids and, and other areas kind of lose their crown. I know at least for me, a good indication of, of knowing that I haven't gotten there is, is, is thinking that I have. And so as soon as I get that feeling, I go, you know what? I probably probably got

Aaron: I’ve got this nailed.

Zack Duhame: Exactly. But, but I think wholehearted is being able to live live successfully not only in your financial realm and your business realm and doing that really well. And having people admire and respect you for what you do, but also relationally with your family. What's your home life like? And what's your personal life like? Like what, what is your in inward story you're telling yourself, how do you enjoy yourself and not unlike a fake kind of superficial level that's circumstantial and only kind of shows up when things are going well, but, but on a sustainable way, how do you find that joy and what do you find in? And so that's been a fun way for me to enter conversations with friends and family and even just people that I meet and learning how to be more transparent and vulnerable. And it's been harder. I would say I've gotten better at that in the past probably decade. And it's been much harder, but much more rich. And I, I wouldn't trade it.

Aaron: I love the a, yeah, not a holic, anything. What is wholehearted? That's super good. And then also love the, I think one of the things I've been just picking away at, I guess is, yeah, just like, what does it mean for me to be wholehearted versus what does it mean? As a definition across, Across the whole of like, what would it look like for me to be experienced more joy more freedom, less effort. So one of the things I've been noticing is I'm in the, in my work world, I'm in the middle of it or tail end, I guess now, it’s like evaluation process and going through and getting feedback like 360 degree feedback from colleagues, from clients and from you know, folks more senior than me. And it's been super fascinating because how they structured it wa you set up conversations. They're 15, 30 minutes long and you asked two simple questions. Where am I great? And how can I see my greatness through your eyes? And secondly, where am I over efforting or getting in my own way and what could become possible if there was less of that in my life and work? Whoa! So I've had, right. So I've had, I think in the end, I'll have like 11, nine or 11 unique dialogues. I just set up the questions, they know them in advance. They know why I’ve asked you know, to pay. Would you please give me feedback on me? And then I just sit there and type, listen, you know, capture the notes. And man, it has been fascinating too. I feel like back to this question, what does it mean to be wholehearted and I now have like a lead on probably five or six topics that other people and they're articulating. This is what the impact you have on me is for great. And, and in ways that here's the impact you have on me when you're kinda in your own way. And what was really cool is I ended up in tears a couple of times on different conversations about the part I'm great about like, not that I had no idea, but it just underestimated or undervalued or didn't see fully like, Whoa, that's really, that's the effect I have on you.
And then on the, they call it the, the tips list, you know, tips for what I'll just use, getting out of your own way. It was so helpful because every person I was having the dialogue with, I can tell they're there for me, they're actually, they actually care. It's not just a chance to, you know, knuckle up. And tell me, tell me about how they're looking. They've been looking forward to it. I can't wait to tell you. It's not that opposite. Like they're actually, for me, believe in me, see goodness greatness in me and then they're articulating back to me. Oh. And by the way, here's a couple of things I noticed. And what I'm noticing also is these areas where I'm not yet as wholehearted as I hope to be. They're also like a little mysterious meaning it's difficult for even them to put words to. So it's more of a description of here's the effect, here's what I feel when I'm around you, when this is something is happening and they'll describe the something and they'll say, so it feels a little bit like this, or, and they, they always have this struggle to like name it and then it's been cool because then we can talk about it together.

And I've mentioned a couple of times like, Hey, can I just go ahead and tell you what that is? And they're like, yeah, it'd be great. I said, I've learned this in 27 years of marriage. That it's just helpful. If I just go ahead and show my cards and to say, Hey, you don't have to work that hard. This is what's going on for me. And this is how I would describe it. And it's super cool because now I feel like I have this, my last call that I had, the friend that I work with, she just said, I'd really encourage you just to be kind like light patient and gentle. Don't turn the, don't turn into a list of stuff to hurry up and, and knock your way through, you know, like, well, great. Now I've got a development punch list. Let me get to work. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. These are just like categories to be conscious of as I'm walking out, you know, my life and work. And so it just feels even that like invitational of, Oh, okay. That's another layer for me of, Oh wholehearted. Okay. It's part of being on a journey. It isn't a list of stuff you got to get fixed.

Zack Duhame: Yeah, absolutely. Man. Yeah. So well said. And what a powerful way to, gosh, just expose some, some truths about how people experience you and what a beautiful opportunity for people to speak to your life. And also for you to be the kind of guy who wants to receive that and is willing to hear that. Not provide excuses immediately, but go, yeah, I actually, I want to get better. I want to, and I think that's part of being wholehearted is having that desire to not just avoid that critical kind of any criticism good or bad and just go, no, not, not, not me. Don't want to hear it. Don't want to look at it where it's, Hey man, we all have a tendency to immediately protect, but I think that's so cool. And then, and then how, how rad for people to talk about ways that surprise you about the ways that you've you operate well and what a personal thing.

Aaron: It's a real treat like, man, I want to do, It's been two years since I've been on it through a process like this and yeah. Just really appreciating it and just finding, yeah. That again, I think this is true for most of us, we underestimate the impact. We have both for great. And when we're, we're efforting efforting more than necessary or we're in our own way...
I'd love to pivot and pivot to, now that we had a chance to get to know you, this is, I think it's fun. Cause we're emulating. How you and I got to know each other in the first place. Right? Yeah. Which had nothing to do with career and work. So first of all I didn't know the earth roamer was yours in the parking lot until a couple of days into the guys' retreat. And I was like, what? Oh, that's cool. I want to go check it out. And then after I think we saw you maybe down in town, pulling away and then it was probably, I don't even know, weeks and months later and somebody said, did you know, Zach's a stuntman like in Hollywood, like Marvel, Marvel films, like lone survivor star Trek, Valkyrie? I'm like, what are you come on? So we had this joke during the men's retreat about how, if you wanted to talk about your day job, you would call it, you either a chimney sweep, you know, or you're a brain surgeon, those are kind of your two picks or whatever. Think, whatever references you made about your chimney sweet gig or your brain surgery gig, you did such a great job. Cause I had no clue.
And then months later then I think I had heard from you. And I went and looked up your stunt reel and your film, which I'll include in the show notes. It's just super sick. Cool. So now I've been looking forward to this part of the conversation equally as much, but what I'd love to do is let's talk about that.
So let me just read this cool little bio verb here. I got so Zach, this is your IMDB I dunno bio or whatever. So he's known for his work in star Trek, 2009 Dunkirk, 2017, Lone Survivor 2013. And then Zach's worked alongsid action stars like Tom cruise, Bruce Willis, Mark Walberg and directors like Clint Eastwood, JJ Abrams, and Ron Howard to name a few. And it goes on a bunch of other stuff. So tell us about, for each of us listening, me included, like this is like a mystery. This is like, this is not our normal, it's your normal. So tell us about what does that look like...Should actually have your job be too, fall, get dragged behind cars, jump down cliffs, drive motorcycles. Like I want to know.

Zack Duhame: Well, you know, what's funny is it is a mysterious business. Even within the movie business. People will often ask me, Hey, like even on set, we'll be there. And they won't know much about science because it is this it's a weird conglomeration of really talented, smart, kind of wild adventurous guys. And it attracts a lot of characters and a lot of interesting kind of just multifaceted people. But it's primarily really fun and there's an element of deep risk assessment, but also character judgment. And he wants to surround yourself with the kind of guys that you want to have in your corner. So it's meaningful. And and it's so fun.
I was fortunate enough to have my dad is also stunt man. And so I grew up with that being a normal thing. I grew up acting actually. So I, I got in our union when I was four and so kicked it off at a young age and and that was really fun. Grew up kind of hard for, yeah, I know. And I went into the my first audition I went in and cried and they're like, yeah, perfect. We'll take it. Yeah.

Aaron: So it how old are you now?

Zack Duhame: 33.

Aaron: Yeah. So for 29 years, this is your normal.

Zack Duhame: Yeah. So, so acting and stunts are obviously kind of two different things and there's a bit of a blend that has been fun for me to kind of do there. There are times when, you know, you got, you got to a part that requires some physical kind of stuff. And sometimes it's a big part. Sometimes it's like a line or two or maybe nothing, but just you're in the room with guys that are doing some serious acting. And so you gotta make sure you don't do anything where

Aaron: Lunch, you were mentioning that that's kind of like a, I don't know, call it a developed super power that you can do at both. And that oftentimes it's actor or stunt man, but the fact that you're willing to play in the middle is actually enables for you to do kind of some interesting work. Is that true?

Zack Duhame: Yeah, absolutely. You know, there's, it's a funny thing. There's incredible courage. That's required on both sides of those two jobs. That acting is an emotional vulnerability. That's scary. And you just gotta like forget about how you look in front of people and just go for it, you know, and on the other hand, stunts is physical and focused mentally vision, you know and guys have different processes around that, but most stunk guys, I know, would way rather jump off the building than be put in front of the camera to say a few lines, like way more terrifying.

Aaron: Way more terrifying to say three lines then to jump off the building!

Zack Duhame: Seriously. And it's totally true. And then, and then kind of obviously the, the necessity for stuntman is that the opposite is also sometimes true. And so to blend them yeah. Is really fun. And it's kind of just for me, it's been a, it's been a natural process because I grew up back thinking and that's always been something I've been comfortable doing and enjoy doing and then found myself just lifestyle wise and people wise enjoying stunts and knew, knew more about that because my father was a man and so was able to blend the two very nicely kind of when I got started, there was, you had to sort of make a decision. People wanted to know if you were going to be a stunt man. If they were going to invest in you as a man and kind of help cultivate the craft and let let you kind of be mentored by them and hang out under their wing and learn the way they do things they want to know you're going to be around. You're not going to change careers and switch paths. And, and some of that is kind of gone away, I think in a really healthy way. And at the same time, I've seen a lot of actors come through and go, Hey, I want to utilize stunts as a launch ground for my acting career. And that just rarely works because people want to know that yeah, you're going to be the kind of person that's going to be around.

Aaron: Is it because like, is with any, any crafts? There's like a, I dunno what would be the word I'm looking for a reverence to the craft itself? And it's kinda like, I need to know if you're going to pledge allegiance or not. And if you are then great, we can do something. But if you're a little wishy washy on God and country, then yeah, maybe you should go do something else. Is that what I'm hearing?

Zack Duhame: That’s probably the best way I've ever heard it put because, and I've, we've searched for the, the kind of reasoning for that. But, but I think you just struck on the core of what is really going on. It's like, Hey, this is something that's been honed and cultivated. I mean, guys have guys died and figured out how to do the things that we take for granted. Now we have a process for most things. I mean, my dad's generation, the guys before that they were hanging it out there daily. And yeah. And, and that has, nobody's really told that story. So it's kind of campfire mythology. It's been passed down verbally and you know, and the stories kind of shift a little bit, but maybe get a little bigger and you know, there's like a classic light bulb joke. It's like, how many stuntmen does it take to screw in a light bulb? It's like, well only one, but you need, you need seven other guys to tell them how bitchin it was.

Aaron: That's good!

Zack Duhame: So yeah, there is, there is a reality to that. Yeah. I think people want to know yeah. That, that you're going to be serious about this and yeah. Treat it with the honor and respect that it deserves.

Aaron: I'd love for you just to describe, like, get super nerdy with us for a minute. Like, I picture this scene on your reel and lone survivor when they're pinned down and they end up kind of lofting themselves down this rocky cliff face and it's tumble, tumble, tumble, tumble. And there was, you know, that was one that just stuck. It stood out to me. So I'd love it. If you just like pick, pick a scene that you can think of. That's like, Oh, I did that. Here's the movie. It was in. Here's what it was about. And here's the craft, here's the hidden part of the industry that none of them would know about. Cause all it looks like is somebody is getting the shit kicked out of him as he falls down. Surely that's not your goal and aim. It is to make it look like you’re getting the shit kicked out of you, but not to actually. So tell us, like give us the, the nuts and bolts of it.

Zack Duhame: Yeah, absolutely. Lone survivor is a good example just because I think that the stunts in that were we had a great group of guys and we were definitely going for it. And it also served the story. You care about these guys at that point in the story, it's a true story. It's, there's actual meaning to what we're doing. They kind of had a, a larger story behind it. And Marcus Luttrell, the guy that wrote that book, he's there, he he's around. And so you really want to do this, this service onset while you're doing this to yeah, he was there. He came like once and I think he saw what we're doing. He said, yeah, I don't need to be here. He know really what that, that involved was us going up on hillsides and looking for places that we could hopefully safely do this. And we weren't using any padding. We were just sometimes removing, we had padding on our bodies that we could fit underneath our water.

Aaron: Which cliff can I launch myself off of safely?

Zack Duhame: Weird. I know, I know it's really weird

Aaron: Legitimately. That's what you're saying.

Zack Duhame: Yeah, I mean, we're looking for place. So we go, Hey, how do we do this? Do it right. Do it justice, make it look visually brutal. And at the same time not get her, you know, as best we can. And so it's that risk assessment. And also you need the right guys doing that. And we had such a great group of super capable guys. And so so it ended up being fun and we were able to encourage each other and kind of spirit each other on to to, to go for. And some of them we would do together and some not, but you know, then there's other situations where it is very, we're doing it in front of a green screen, you know, like, like lots of Marvel movies we're in a suit. We, we get told what's going on in the background and we have to kind of physically put ourselves in that world kind of mentally and physically, and then do whatever else is going to take place on stage, whether it's a fight scene or, or what have you. And a lot of times now we will, we will train with the actors. If we, if we got a big movie we'll, we'll train a couple months out and we'll start honing whatever skills like, Hey, this guy's an expert swordsman. We, you know, and so we start training. We doing that, or this guy is kind of a brutal, you know, hand to hand combat guy. And so we'll start training and going through sessions.

Aaron: Like if it's a hand to hand combat scene, you'll start a couple months in advance. Cause you know, that's the scene that you're going to be filming in. So therefore you'll upskill or refine skills or Polish those skills, even with the actor that you'll be doing it with, is that what you're saying?

Zack Duhame: Yeah, a hundred percent. So like yeah, like I, I double Brad Pitt on one spot and time in Hollywood. And so we got in there early, he would come in, we had a fight, we knew they didn't know exactly what the moves were going to be, but we started honing in on some technique and he was super gung ho came in, showed up work really hard and he’s just the all around great dude. And so we were able to, when the time came, there are guys that are expert martial artists that immediately just like anyone, who's an expert in something, if you're in the military and you see a military movie there's things throughout the movie, you're going to scoff that gun, that's not the way it was or that's not the way it would be, or you wouldn't be going, Hey, that, that was pretty legit. That looked really cool. I liked the way they did that. And so those small differences, I think whether you're an expert or not come across in the story, if you see someone holding a weapon that they've moved around a thousand times in the same way, you can see that efficient movement. And you can, maybe you can't call it out for what it is, if you're just you know, a normal kind of everyday person. But when, when you see that person moving with the kind of just the regularity that, that someone who's actually been in the military has operated a weapon. You recognize that.

Aaron: I see what you’re saying, you're going to get back to the rigor, the craft, the, yeah, yeah. That's the saying, this is how you hold it with the respect and dignity that your forefathers have. Okay. That's interesting. So like for me, I don't hold a lot of weapons, so I wouldn't notice, but like you said. You know, friend Morgan or others, they would, so you're saying yeah, that level of care and detail to the craft.

Zack Duhame: Absolutely. And, and some of that falls on us and now we, now we have military advisors. If we're doing like Lone Survivor, we have guys that are seals that some new those guys, some are just, you know, seals and came in to help make sure that what we're doing is, is operationally sound. And then there's times where you do have to, as much as you want to do that, you have to make a, an engaging story. And sometimes it's finding that balance of how much, how far can you just, you know, extend reality and how much needs to be, what truly would have happened.

Aaron: Yeah, that's cool. But it's fun to be creative in those ways and you are very it sounds like like both emergent creative, and then there's this a through line of precision as well. So tell us about some of the stuff that you're working on right now that isn't out yet, and fun stuff that's captivating your attention.

Zack Duhame: Yeah. Well, I'm not working on anything right now because the whole COVID, but it's actually been kind of a nice respite, but before this, I was, I think right before this I working on Matrix 4, they're coming out with another Matrix, which I'm not sure when that will be coming out because it would have been shooting during this time. So we'll see. Everything's kind of postponed.

Aaron: Some of that was in San Francisco too. Wasn't it? There was, yeah, we were in the city.

Zack Duhame: Oh, you were? Oh, no way.

Aaron: So we were there in the city basically living there part time and on Thursday night and Sunday mornings, they were cruising the helicopters in the high rises, in The financial district.

Zack Duhame: Wow. That's so funny. Yeah, we were up there. They were getting cool helicopter shots and sometimes shooting the other helicopter. So one camera and then one actually being shot. And yeah, there were some cool stuff going on, one guy and a girl kind of jumping off the top and rigging all that. Okay.

Aaron: And what was the next one Top Gun you mentioned?

Zack Duhame: Yeah, Top Gun. I work, I coordinated a movie called Mank, which is a David Fincher movie that I'm kind of excited to see . It's about the guy who wrote Citizen Kane. We'll probably do that justice. Yeah. A few other things, but I'm trying to think what else recently. Westworld just came out. I, I, alongside a buddy of mine coordinated the last half of season three of Westworld. So that was fun and that's a very complex world. So it was fun to, to jump into that and yeah, man.

Aaron: So fun. So for you when you're not working, when you're not in the earth roamer, what, what brings you joy these days?

Zack Duhame: Yeah, it's funny right now during this whole COVID I was traveling for a bit and I was, I was gone until like March 21st and some, the trip kicked off with, with joining an organization called Zoe, which is a child trafficking organization, which was really profoundly heart shifting. And so I did that with a great group of guys for 10 days. And then, and then I just did fun travel after that. where I landed after Sri Lanka was in West Sumatra out in some islands, and I heard about this whole pandemic and primary reason was I was you know, just so much uncertainty. So I just want to get back from my family and also reality. I could definitely gotten stuck out there.
So yeah, when I, when I got home, there was so much rest that came, obviously some uncertainty and competed I'm not working So, you know, pulling out of savings and figuring all that out and like a lot of people, but feeling very fortunate that I'm, that I have some solid ground right now. And, you know, been walking through some tough times with friends, but but for fun recently, I replied, planted all new plants in my front, just landscaped my front yard. I've been camping getting out in the middle of nowhere. That’s just so fun being out in nature, different, different parts and seeing big trees or seeing desert being by the ocean and surfing and been doing a bunch of surfing and and also just reading and hanging out and taking time to do the kind of things like I wanted to plant these plants for a while front then kind of procrastinating and, and, and it was such a simple pleasure to get into a flow of just doing something that it feels like we're made to do on some level and enjoy the simplicity of that without the reality of, of what I have very strongly as some FOMO of knowing, ‘Oh my God, all my friends what's going on out there?’ There ain't nothing going on. So that's been a deeper level of relaxation and, and yeah, just the rhythm has been cool, but yeah, I have the tendency to try to maximize my free time and just enjoy it. And so when things are up and I'm doing all kinds of things and pulling friends in and friends are pulling me in.

Aaron: So good. I love it.
Alright. I have one final question for you. When I was a kid in Bishop, California, there was this guy, he went to our church from my dad, was a pastor out there and he broke the land speed record in the Budweiser rocket car. And when you and I are treated emails, I was like, yeah, only known or like, knew of, kind of like had dinner at their house a couple of times, whatever his kid, but he was his legendary guy, Stan Barrett. And I remember you wrote back, you're like, I know him. I'm like, no, come on.
So I've held that question for us to connect on. So tell me, I picked where I left off is I knew his son, I think back in the day, went on to do some stunt man work as well. And, and I'm not even sure if, if Stan is still alive and kicking it, but I've thought about looking them up. So tell me what you know.

Zack Duhame: I know, so I know Stanton and don't don't know him super well, but we've worked on a few things together and we've enjoyed some time together. I know that David, I believe David's his brother, David Barrett and Dave, and I don't really know each other.

Aaron: They're probably my age. Right. They're probably 50 something like that, somewhere in there.

Zack Duhame: Yeah. Yeah. And so it's funny how the business works, where you might work with someone day in, day out for a couple of years and then not see them for 10. Yeah. Just the nature of it. But yeah, those guys. Yeah, exactly. Super talented guys. And grew up in, in that whole zone and mammoth and all the connections to that seems like they had they add some free range of adventures and enjoyment.

Aaron: I can't claim that. I know them either. I just remember as a kid, like sharing a couple of meals together since they went to our church.

Zack Duhame: Yeah. How cool.

Aaron: Yeah. And then, and they were, my guess is that they might be a little bit older than I, and then when Stan had driven the Budweiser rocket car and, you know, broke the land speed record or whatever it was, and I subsequently went back and watched a documentary on it. And Holy crap that is scary. Like, I had no idea. I remember his wife just, yeah. My perception as a kid through that filter like amazing. And Holy shit, it was like, yeah, this guy could die. But we're all I knew was like, I just saw like a newsreel footage kind of thing about it and then heard about it later over a dinner or whatever. But now watching it as an adult, it's like, Whoa, that is super ballsy, gnarly stuff to strap yourself to something like that. That's right. I don't know what the song and look it up, but they had to. Yeah. Anyway, so I just thought of your fun.

Zack Duhame: No, that's, that's amazing. And that kind of stuff. I think, you know, we lose that as, as we become older, we lose the kind of as a kid. How amazing would it be to hear that? And obviously so much more impressive as a man in certain ways. But the, the the idea of doing things that have never been done and breaking records, and they always come with a price and they always come with some sort of risk or deep, you know, training and you know, some loss of life that comes with it. So I think that, that something about that is so intrinsically inspiring.

Aaron: I looked it up, 763 miles per hour.

Zack Duhame: Oh my God! Can you imagine...How tiny does the world get? It must be like a little pin point.

Aaron: That was so fun. I’m glad we got a chance to do this.

Zack Duhame: Me too!

*We’ve done our best for this transcription to accurately reflect the conversation. Errors are possible. Thank you for your patience and grace if you find errors that our team missed.